Posted by: Peje Iesous | January 17, 2010

Interview with Ismo Dunderberg (Part II)

Here’s part two of my dialogue with Professor Dunderberg. I especially appreciate his lengthy answer to my question about prospects for future study on the Gospel of Thomas. Thanks again, Professor Dunderberg!

(CWS) 4. I know that you regard yourself as more of a Johannine scholar, but do you anticipate any further research on the Gospel of Thomas? If so, could you tell us about it? I also know that you recently had an opportunity to examine Codex Tchacos up close (Gospel of Judas). Did you pursue this research in preparation for a book? Are you planning to do more research into similar ancient Christian texts?

 (ID) I’m not working on Thomas any longer, but I am presently working on the Gospel of Judas. My article on this text and ancient theories of “anger management” was recently published in a collection of articles edited by April DeConick. And I’m presently working on an edition and commentary on the Gospel of Judas. For this purpose, I spent a week in Geneva this past December inspecting some of the pages of Codex Tchachos. I’m sorry to tell I had no great new discoveries; the present edition by Wurst and others seems very accurate!

 As I’m now moving back to New Testament studies “proper” from Thomasine and Valentinian studies, I’m now and then asked to give papers on the reception of New Testament texts in the second century. I haven’t done much of this so far but  it seems I should do more in the future.

(CWS) 5. Another research interest that I have and one that I hope to promote on this blog is the historical Jesus. To your mind, what implications for historical Jesus research does the Gospel of Thomas have (if any)? You argue that there is material in Thomas old enough to be illuminating about the life of the historical Jesus. How do these two research interests coalesce in your own scholarship?

(ID) I haven’t conducted any independent research on the historical Jesus thus far; perhaps I’m too much aware of the problem of circularity which is particularly vexing in this field of study? I think there are sayings in Thomas which may “sound like Jesus,” or may stand closer to him than the synoptic versions, but I hardly have anything original to say about that matter–except that I was surprised to see that the Jesus seminar found so little in the non-synoptic material of Thomas that could go back to Jesus.

(CWS) 6. What scholars pursuing research on the Gospel of Thomas (and/or Christian Origins) have you found most helpful for your own work on the Gospel of Thomas?

(ID) First of all, I should mention my two Finnish colleagues, Antti Marjanen and Risto Uro. Not only have I spent hours and hours with them discussing the Gospel of Thomas, but they have also painstakingly read and commented on everything I’ve written about this topic, and have opened with their own work many important perspectives to it, both in methodological issues and in detailed analysis. Riley and DeConick have been very important discussion partners, of course. I’ve always found Elaine Pagels’ research and discussions with her most inspiring for my work (both on Thomas and Valentinians). I should also mention Stephen Patterson, whose work has prevented me from thinking that Thomas was simply put together from bits and pieces derived from the synoptic gospels; Philip Sellew, whose work always opens new perspectives for understanding Thomas in a broader context of antiquity; and Stevan Davies, who has such a keen eye especially on what binds John and Thomas theologically together and on their background in Jewish wisdom theology. Finally, I should mention Tjitze Baarda, whose detailed presentations at SBL and articles warned against any kind of generalizations and false security as to our conclusions about Thomas.

(CWS) 7. To your mind, what area(s) of Thomas research is/are in need of further investigation? If you were going to supervise Ph.D. students in this area, what avenues of study would you suggest?

(ID) There are of course many areas where further investigation might be necessary. One promising path is the increased interest in how the Gospel of Thomas might have been understood in Egypt in the fourth century. What was it in this text that attracted attention among early Christians of this period? Why was it translated, by whom, and to whom? There’ve been initial attempts to analyze the individual Nag Hammadi codices as collections, and such analyses may shed light on this questions. The demolition of strict boundaries between “orthodoxy” and “heresy”, for which many have argued, may help us see affinities between Thomas and monastic literature more clearly than before.

Another big problem, that still needs further clarification, is the genre of Thomas. It is, of course, a collection of sayings of Jesus, but what are hermeneutical ramifications of this genre? Should we continue to try to find a unified theology in, or behind, it? Or should it be approached as a random collection of oracles, as Davies proposed some years ago?

 Due to my interest in the school of Valentinus, I’ve also developed a fancy for interactions of early Christian texts with philosophical traditions. I’ve been one of the editors of a book dealing with this topic, where there are chapters on gospels, Paul, Sethians, and Valentinians–but strikingly, none on Thomas! Risto Uro made some very promising remarks about this issue in his book Thomas (2003). In light of them, it would be worthwhile to explore more systematically whether the Gospel of Thomas was written (or could be placed) in dialogue with philosophers, like Paul or the author of John may have been.

Posted by: Peje Iesous | January 13, 2010

Interview with Ismo Dunderberg (Part I)

My series of interviews with Thomas scholars continues. Today I am posting the first part of my interview with Ismo Dunderberg, Professor of New Testament Studies at the University of Helsinki. Professor Dunderberg is the author of The Beloved Disciple in Conflict: Revisiting the Gospels of John and Thomas , as well as numerous articles and  several books dealing with Gnosticism, early Christian conflict, and John’s relationship to the Synoptics. I would like to thank Professor Dunderberg for taking time out of his busy schedule to respond to my questions.

(CWS) 1. I have posed this question at the outset of each interview I’ve conducted on the Gospel of Thomas. Before I interact with your work on the Gospel of Thomas I would like to begin by asking what got you interested in studying the Gospel of Thomas in the first place?

(ID) As I was writing my dissertation on John and the Synoptics in 1990s, I attended an introductory Coptic course taught by Antti Marjanen. He and Risto Uro were both interested in the Gospel of Thomas, and, after having published the Finnish translation of it in 1992, they started to plan a research project on this text. Because Greg Riley had reopened the question of the relationship between John and Thomas, they wanted to have a Johannine specialist in the team. I happened to be pretty much the only person available, and had some Coptic under my belt, so they invited me to the project, for which we then applied and got funding from the Academy of Finland.

(CWS) 2. Your work on the John-Thomas question represents the first attempt to challenge what I have called “the community-conflict hypothesis.” In fact, your series of articles (which subsequently became the basis for your book, The Beloved Disciple in Conflict) largely served as the impetus for my own work in that area. Could you briefly summarize your views on the relationship between John and Thomas and on the theory that John was written in response to Thomas?

 (ID) Perhaps I should start by saying that although I was invited to the project, I wasn’t asked to defend or rebut any particular view of John and Thomas!

 I agree with Riley and DeConick that John and Thomas are close to each other in spirit, and I find their work important because they brought that issue under discussion. Yet I found problematic the steps they took from the narrative world of John to the social world behind it. The methodological problems seemed similar to what other scholars (e.g., Joachim Kügler whose carefully articulated studies I read when writing my dissertation) had detected Louis Martyn’s reading of John as “a two-level drama.”

 My own view is that John and Thomas both share common ground and disagree on a number of issues but the disagreements aren’t specific enough to show that there was a mutual conflict between them. Different views, yes, a real-life conflict, no. (These are two different things, really.) If John was written to combat the Gospel of Thomas, or more broadly Thomasine traditions, and if this was one of the author’s main objectives, one could easily imagine clearer ways for expressing this than what we now have in John. It doesn’t even seem to me that Thomas is utterly badly treated as a character in John 20, if we compare his figure to the way the other followers of Jesus are depicted in John.

(CWS) 3. In your book, The Beloved Disciple in Conflict, you focused on social and religious issues, specifically looking at the paradigmatic “beloved disciple” figure behind the Gospels of John and Thomas. For readers of my blog who may not be familiar with your work, would you provide a brief description of your thesis.

The basic problem related to the Beloved Disciple is that, among the New Testament gospels, he is only mentioned in John, yet in John he appears in stories which have parallels in other gospels. From this, most scholars reason that the Beloved Disciple was a leader of the Johannine community who was secondarily inserted into the gospel story. I argue, against the usual consensus, that we have little evidence–much less than you would imagine in reading scholarly literature!–for the Beloved Disciple’s leadership in the Johannine community.

I also point out that similar figures gradually emerge in other early Christian texts to lend them authenticity. Hence my suggestion that the Beloved Disciple was invented for the same purpose. The crucial difference I saw (but many disagree) between John and other early Christian texts featuring beloved disciples is that the Beloved Disciple in John isn’t characterized as being the most perceptive of all disciples.

I also argued that one special reason to introduce the Beloved Disciple in John was to offer a replacement for the brothers of Jesus (cf. John 19:25-27), who in John 7 are portrayed as unbelievers.

 More to come. . . .

Posted by: Peje Iesous | January 8, 2010

Gospel of Thomas interviews

In my efforts to generate a storehouse of information on the views and works of contemporary Thomas scholars, I will be continuing my interviews with professors and scholars throughout the spring semester, and possibly into the summer. My next interview, with Ismo Dunderberg (University of Helsinki), will be posted in a few days. Thus far I have been asking each interviewee a group of general questions along with some specific questions about their focused research interests.

At this point I would like to solicit input from the readers of my blog in three areas: (1) What other Thomas scholars would you be interested in hearing from in this format? (2) What additional questions would you like me to ask?; (3) If you have accessed the previous interviews and were left with additional questions, how would you like to see the previous interviews followed-up?

You can respond to any or all of these questions by either commenting on this blog post, sending a message to the Gospel of Thomas e-list under the heading “Thomas Interview Suggestions,” or by sending an email to me at christopherwskinner[at]gmail[dot]com. I promise to take all reasonable suggestions into account. Thanks in advance for your help with my continued efforts to make a lot of highly academic material accessible to a wider audience.

Posted by: Peje Iesous | January 4, 2010

First post of 2010

Like everyone else, I haven’t written for a few weeks because I’ve been enjoying spending time with family and friends during an extended holiday. I have little to contribute in the vein of my usual posts because over the break I resolved to read only things that were unrelated to biblical and early Christian studies. Other than finishing Mike Bird’s Are You the One Who is to Come, I managed to keep that resolution successfully. So, here are the books I am reading or have completed. Check them out. They have all been interesting, illuminating, and enjoyable.

Descartes’ Bones: A Skeletal History of the Conflict between Faith and Reason by Russell Shorto

13 Things That Don’t Make Sense: The Most Baffling Scientific Mysteries of Our Time by Michael Brooks

Three Cups of Tea: One Man’s Mission to Create Peace. . . .One School at a Time by Greg Mortenson and David Oliver Relin

The Brain that Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph from the Frontiers of Brain Science by Norman Doidge

Posted by: Peje Iesous | December 23, 2009

Mike Bird on the historicity of Mark’s secrecy motif

I am currently reviewing Michael Bird’s book, Are You the One Who Is to Come? and, for the most part, I have found it to be engaging and informative. Mike certainly has an awareness of issues across the spectrum of historical Jesus scholarship and he does a good job of situating his own position in the spectrum of opinion. One thing in particular though, stood out to me as I read the book and that is his argument that Mark’s secrecy motif likely goes back to the ministry of the historical Jesus (see his discussion on pp. 66-70).

Wrede argued that the “messianic secret” in Mark’s Gospel was a retrojection, reflecting later theological developments and essentially proving that during his lifetime, Jesus never regarded himself as the messiah. Using Wrede as his primary conversation partner in this section of his third chapter, Bird seems to (perhaps unwittingly?) set up a false choice between Wrede’s position and his own (that the ”messianic secret” goes back to the ministry of the historical Jesus).  There are other choices, aren’t there? Much more has been written on Mark’s secrecy motif and Bird appears to recognize this in his footnotes. Nevertheless, his argument strikes me as somewhat of an oversimplification.

I also think his conclusion is unlikely for several reasons. First, it is clear from the outset of Mark’s Gospel that the reader is supposed to understand the Jesus is “Christ [=Messiah] and Son of God.” This is confirmed a number of times in the text, most notably in the gospel’s two climaxes: 8:27-31, when Peter confesses that Jesus is the “messiah,” and in 15:39 when the centurion confesses, “truly this man was the Son of God.” All of this appears to be a deliberate literary attempt aimed at having a rhetorical effect on the audience. The irony is that while Jesus’ identity is consistenly revealed to the twelve (those appointed to be met’ autou in 3:14), they fail to understand while outsiders like the Syrophoenician woman appear to grasp at least a portion of the truth about Jesus’ identity. The “secret” is not very well kept if it is explicitly given to insiders and subtly grasped by outsiders. Again, this seems to be a deliberate literary ploy. Second, this secrecy motif is unattested elsewhere in the canonical gospel tradition. This is not to say that only things that are multiply attested can be historical but one would think that such an important element of Jesus’ ministry would have found exposition elsewhere.

In the end, while I disagree with Mike’s conclusion about the historicity of the secrecy motif, I do find compelling the statement with which he concludes the section in question. He writes:

It is surely correct to see the early church attributing theological significance to the title “Christ.” After all, for the early church, Jesus was, is, and will be the Messiah and Savior of all the people. Yet it is singularly inappropriate to conclude from this that all the messianic passages in the Gospels are indebted to the faith of the early church. Wrede’s messianic secret tried to lend some credence to this perspective, but the theory is no longer acceptable (p. 70).

Posted by: Peje Iesous | December 23, 2009

Impressive collection of audio lectures

Over at Text, Community, and Mission, there is currently an impressive collection of lectures from a diverse pool of biblical scholars and theologians. You can listen to the likes of Dale Allison, Richard Bauckham, Marcus Bockmuehl, Doug Campbell, Craig Evans, Michael Gorman, Richard Hays, Craig Koester, Richard Longencker, and N.T. Wright, among others. It must have taken some time to put this collection together. Our thanks to Daniel for his hard work on this project.

Posted by: Peje Iesous | December 22, 2009

I am buried. . . .

. . . .beneath a mound of about 40 exegetical papers that need to be graded. I’ll be back soon.

Posted by: Peje Iesous | December 17, 2009

DeConick asks, “What’s Up With the Gospel of Thomas?”

Over on her Forbidden Gospels blog, April DeConick points us to an article she has written for Biblical Archaeology Review on the Gospel of Thomas.

Posted by: Peje Iesous | December 14, 2009

Interview with Stephen J. Patterson (Part III)

Here’s the final installment of my interview with Professor Patterson. It’s good to hear that he is back working seriously in the Gospel of Thomas after some time away.

(CWS) 6. What scholars pursuing research on the Gospel of Thomas (and/or Christian Origins) have you found most helpful for your own work on the Gospel of Thomas?

 (SJP) I began with Robinson and Koester, whom I still find to be very insightful.  I like Plisch’s new commentary.  I still use Schrage all of the time, even though I disagree with his central thesis.  His work is full of valuable detail.  I use the Finns a lot – Uro [see here and here], Marjanen, DunderbergZöckler’s book is helpful.  I rely on Pagels and Davies essays on Genesis exegesis in early Judaism as the basic framework for understanding the theology.  And, of course, we could not have a better tool that Layton’s edition of Codex II.

 (CWS) 7. You have written quite widely on the Gospel of Thomas. Are you currently planning to undertake more research on the Gospel of Thomas? If so, what other projects do you currently have planned (or in the works)?

(SJP) I am currently preparing the Hermeneia volume on Thomas.  This has brought me back into the study of this text after several years hiatus.

(CWS) 8. To your mind, what area(s) of Thomas research is/are in need of further investigation? If you were going to supervise Ph.D. students in this area, what avenues of study would you suggest? (If you are currently supervising doctoral students in Thomasine studies, can you share a little about what these students are pursuing?)

(SJP) The most pressing issue now is understanding the theology of Thomas.  The older designation “Gnostic” clearly won’t do.  I have recently argued for Middle Platonism as the basic framework (“Jesus Meets Plato: The Theology of the Gospel of Thomas,” pp. 181-205 in J. Frey, et al., ed., Das Thomasevangelium, Entstehung – Rezeption – Theologie.  BZNW 157 [Berlin: de Gruyter, 2008]).  I think this is right, but there is much to explore here.  Also, there are many sayings still for which little or no research has been done.  Students just need to wade into the bibliography to find the thin places (there are plenty) and get to work.  Sayings 15, 26, 29, 56, 59, 70 etc.—all sayings for which there is no major study.  In connection with the commentary I have developed a fairly comprehensive bibliography, and would gladly direct students to the most neglected sayings needing further study.

Once again I would like to thank Professor Patterson for taking the time to interact with my questions in this forum. I have other interviews planned as the academic year progresses. With these interviews my primary goal continues to be fostering discussion and generating interest in the major issues involved in intelligently discussing the Gospel of Thomas. If anyone has a suggestion about what other questions they would like to see posed or what other scholars they would like to see interviewed, please feel free to comment.

Posted by: Peje Iesous | December 10, 2009

Interview with Stephen J. Patterson (Part II)

Here is the second part of my interview with Professor Patterson. He discusses his views on dating Thomas and on Thomas’s implications for the discussion of the historical Jesus.

(CWS) 4. When I interviewed Nick Perrin for this blog earlier in the fall he made the following comment in one of his answers:  “Last November at an open SBL meeting, Stephen Patterson kept talking about Tatian and Philo (who had a formidable reception coming into the third century), and I asked him publicly what prevented him from allowing a late second century date. He said – in front of a few hundred witnesses, mind you — it was plausible. I thought it was a stunning and commendable admission.” 

Can you talk about the shift in your thinking indicated in Nick’s answer. Is this “no big deal” or have you come to some (possibly radical?) new conclusions in your recent research on Thomas and Christian origins?

(SJP) I recall the exchange only vaguely, but my recollection was that he had asked me about a point I had made in my paper, that Thomas shares a Philo-like Hellenistic Jewish theology with other second century figures known from the second century: Tatian, Bardaisan, and later the Acts of Thomas and Book of Thomas.  Whatever I said to him that made him think I would endorse a date for Thomas in the second half of the second century, I must have misspoken, because this is not my view.  I believe it is fallacious to assume that because Thomas shares theological ideas with Tatian, that it comes from the same period as Tatian.  Hellenistic Jews were thinking such thoughts all over the Mediterranean basin for a century before either Tatian or Thomas came on the scene.  These ideas were around for a long time.  I do think that Christianity in Edessa was marked by this kind of theology.  Now, whether Thomas stands at or near the beginning of that tradition, or somewhere in the middle, like Tatian, is another matter.  In my view the dating of Thomas is no easy matter.  Since R. McL. Wilson first pointed it out years ago, the collection was surely a snowballing piece of literature, with early and late additions (and subtractions) accumulating over decades, maybe centuries.  Perhaps he asked me if there could be late material in Thomas.  The answer is certainly yes, even later than the second century.  But was the whole thing composed that late?  Doubtful.  POxy 1 gives us an absolute terminus of 200; Grenfell and Hunt guessed 140 as a likely terminus ante quem (latest possible date) for the Greek material, but thought that the first century was more likely.  To my thinking, the relative lack of contact with the synoptics and John, which only become more and more prominent in the second century, indicates an earlier rather than later date.  But so far as I can see, there is no definitive way to answer this question.

(CWS) 5. Another research interest that I have and one that I hope to promote on this blog is the historical Jesus. What implications for historical Jesus research does the Gospel of Thomas have? Is there anything in Thomas that is old enough to be potentially illuminating about the life of the historical Jesus? If so, what?

 (SJP) There have always been scholars who ask this question about new sayings… some of the best treatments, and most optimistic, were older: Jeremias’ Unbekannte Jesuswörte, J. Bauer’s essay “Echte Jesuswörte,” etc.  But they were not game-changers. 

  • First, there are not many new sayings to be added to the corpus – the Jesus Seminar added only two, maybe three, from Thomas (the Assassin, the Jar, and Become passers-by—all three squeaked by on close votes). 
  • Second, Jeremias et co. were only looking for sayings that looked like sayings in they thought were authentic in the synoptic tradition. 
  • Crossan’s work, on the other hand, changed all that.  For Crossan saw that what Thomas changed was not the corpus, but our understanding of the tradition history of the corpus.  Thomas’s presentation of the parables and aphorisms of Jesus in a non-apocalyptic valence was what lead him to propose a more sapiential understanding of Jesus and the kingdom.  I would quibble with him on how he dates Thomas and other small matters, but the big picture is exactly right, I think. 

Now, of course, scholars are arguing that Thomas has culled all the apocalyptic out of the tradition (something I find very unlikely), and in this way keeping the synoptic view in tact.  But one can no longer assume that the synoptic evangelists got it right.  In Thomas you find the same material: parables, aphorisms, prophetic sayings—but in a sapiential valence.  So, here is a new thing to consider.  I do not think this is settled yet; I don’t think anyone has quite solved it yet.

I recently published an essay on Thomas and the historical Jesus that is mostly an assessment of the discussion: “The Gospel of Thomas and Historical Jesus Research,” pp. 663-84 in L. Painchaud et P.-H. Poirier, eds., Coptica, Gnostica, et Manichaica.  Mélanges offerts à Wolf-Peter Funk à l’occasion de son 60e anniversaire; (BCNH Section; “Études,” 7;  Québec: Laval/Louvain-Paris: Éditions Peeters, 2006).  Also, the next issue of Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus will carry an essay in which I make a different kind of proposal: perhaps Jesus never really made up his mind about the when and where of the kingdom.

Stay tuned for part three of my discussion with Professor Patterson.

Older Posts »

Categories